Coded Logic

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Posts by Coded Logic

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  21

  More WTS cash-grabbing: "Funds on Deposit" program for Circuits

  by sir82 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  at a recent circuit assembly "business meeting" for elders, a new program was announced: "funds on deposit".. here's how it works:.

  each circuit determines a "floor" and a "ceiling" for an amount to hold in their circuit checking account.

  when the "ceiling" amount is exceeded, the amount above the threshold is wired to the wts and held by them.. if the circuit checking account drops below the "floor" amount, the circuit can send a request to the wts to request that some of their "funds on deposit" be returned to them so that their checking account resumes a "safe" level.. as explained by the elder explaining the program,, "in other words, the branch is acting exactly like a bank - the circuit will make deposits and withdrawals as needed.

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  Coded Logic

  Are they really that broke? :)
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  34

  Is truth relative?

  by Pinku in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  seeing various/changing laws on the same action, some may feel truth is relative, and there is no such thing as right and wrong.. yet a closer look at beneath the details would show that truth is not relative, and everyone knows what is right and wrong.. driving in the night by putting the head-light off is wrong, but right when country is in war with another country.

  behind both the conflicting laws, the truth is same: safety and welfare of the people.

  this is true of notion about what is right and wrong:.

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  Coded Logic

  I believe that there is an objective reality. As such, I believe there are truths that can be learned about that reality. Or, more consisely put, reality is the metric used to determine truth. Things that corrispond with reality are true. Things that are in conflict with reality are false.

  I have seen absolutely zero evidence that supports that spirits are part of reality.
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  49

  Faith - Virtue or Vice?

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  faith gives you permission to believe that jesus actually did feed thousands with a few loaves & fishes, walk on water and rise from the grave.

  all the evidence proves that none of this happened so why persist with faith?

  why be dishonest with yourself?

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  Coded Logic

  It means both. I would suggest knowing what you are talking about before declaring someone else wrong.

  - Viviane

  CL if there is one thing I have learned from Viviane, it's to know your EXACT definitions and state your points clearly and concisely!

  - sunny23

  Wow youg guys, way to COMPLETELY missrepresent my position. I did NOT say that faith doesn't mean trust. I said that the use of the word "faith" in the OP was not in reference to that particular meaning. Viviane, you are dead wrong and it is unfortunate you didn't take your own advice and "know what your talking about before declaring someone else wrong." I'm not sure why you are on a personal vandetta with all of my posts and comments to "prove me wrong" but the only person you're making look like a "blowhard" (your words) is yourself. Please re-read what I actually wrote on the first page of this thread:

  While the word "faith" is a somewhat nebulous term and can have multiple meanings (sometimes synonymous with words like conviction, hope, etc.) it is being used in a VERY percise manner for this thread. We are talking about the sort of faith mentioned in Hebrews 11:1. Specifically, believing something without having evidence or contrary to the evidence simply because you want it to be true. Having "faith" in a person because they have demonstrated their trustworthiness in the past is no equvical.

  It would be like if this thread were asking if we should preserve the natural habbitat of wild cranes because they are going extinct and then someone saying that, "cranes are great because they help unload cargo off of ships." Clearly these are two entirely different things.

  -CL
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  49

  Faith - Virtue or Vice?

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  faith gives you permission to believe that jesus actually did feed thousands with a few loaves & fishes, walk on water and rise from the grave.

  all the evidence proves that none of this happened so why persist with faith?

  why be dishonest with yourself?

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  Coded Logic

  I don't see how anything in it can be construed to mean that I think faith without proof is a good thing, or that I had such a faith.

  -LisaRose

  You are attempting to move the goal post. Nobody said that you think "faith without proof" is a good thing. Nor did anyone say that you had such faith. Rather, the critisim of your initial statement was that you were transposing the meaning of "faith" from: believing things without evidence - to: trust. When called out on this you accused people of being "pathetic" and claimed that you said people put faith in God without reason. Which is in direct contradiction to your first statment:

  You can have faith in a person, if that person has demonstrated that they are trustworthy . . . Most believers do think there is reason to put faith in God

  The OP is not about people who think they have evidential reasons for belief in a God. Rather, it was about people who willfully believe things without evidence and then claim that is a virtue.
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  6

  Debunking the KCA

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for those who havent encountered it before, the kalam cosmological argument is a proof of gods existence and goes as follows:.

  ) anything that begins to exist has a cause..

  ) the universe began to exist.. c.) therefore the universe has a cause.. .

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  Coded Logic

  For those who haven’t encountered it before, the Kalam Cosmological Argument is a “proof” of Gods existence and goes as follows:

  P1.) Anything that begins to exist has a cause.

  P2.) The universe began to exist.

  C.) Therefore the universe has a cause.

  While, at first glance, the KCA seems reasonable enough we quickly realize that, with any sort of consideration, the argument fails on every possible level. In the following paragraphs we will consider the logic and and the science behind this topic.

  To begin with, the first problem here is, even granting the syllogism were valid, the conclusion doesn’t get you to a Creator. The KCA only gets us to a cause. While many will assert that God is that “cause” this cannot be supported because, in the absence of evidence, all Ad-Hocs are equally valid. That is to say, you cannot solve one mystery with another mystery. Nor can you explain one unknown by postulating the existence of another unknown. Saying that the Flying Spaghetti Monster was the “first cause” is equally valid/invalid as saying any other unknown was the first cause (big foot, mini mouse, pink unicorns, etc).

  The second problem is the conclusion does not necessarily follow from the first two premises. What applies to the parts of a whole does not necessarily apply to the whole itself. To explain what I mean by this consider the following statements:

  All sheep in the flock have a mother - therefore the flock must have a mother.

  All raindrops in the storm are pear shaped - therefore all rainstorms must be pear shaped.

  This is the exact same sort of bad inductive reasoning that is going on with the KCA: All things in the universe have a cause - therefore the universe must have a cause. Principles that apply to parts of the system do not necessarily apply to the entire system itself.

  However, the biggest problem with the KCA is that for a premise to support a conclusion - the premise must be known to be true. Premises cannot be hypotheticals or mere assertions. Rather, premises must be factual.

  And the first premise - everything that begins to exist has a cause - is demonstrably false. With one exception, everything in our universe is the rearrangement of energy. Stars, planets, animals, cars, tables, etc. don’t “begin to exist.” Rather, matter that is already in existence is repurposed. However, the one exception is known as Quantum Fluctuations. They are, quite literally, something from nothing.

  Those familiar with the First Law of Thermodynamics know that energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Quantum Fluctuations do NOT violate this law. Rather, when they pop into existence they always do so in equal amounts of positive and negative energy. They were first predicted in 1948 by Hendrik Casimir (see Casimir Effect) and directly measured in 1997 by Steve Lamoreaux of the Los Almos National Laboratory. And Quantum Fluctuations are one of the key factors responsible for Cosmic Inflation.

  Even more interesting, is that when we measure how much energy is in our universe, accounting for all the positive and negative energy, it works out to zero. How does something come from nothing? Well zero is equal to zero. And -1+1=0. It doesn’t matter how complicated you make the equation. So long as it balances out in the end.

  Lastly, is the second premise - the universe began to exist. This is not known to be true. While we often refer to the initial moments of the Big Bang as the birth of our universe we don’t what happened before that. We don’t know if space time and energy existed prior to that point of if that really was the beginning. In the absence of that knowledge, the second premise cannot be used to support a conclusion. When we don’t know the answer to something we should say “I don’t know” instead of “hey, let’s make something up.”

  Anyway, hope this arms you intellectually if you ever come across the Kalam Cosmilogical Arguement. And hope you may have learened something you didn't know about our universe :)

  "The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true."

  - Carl Sagan
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  49

  Faith - Virtue or Vice?

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  faith gives you permission to believe that jesus actually did feed thousands with a few loaves & fishes, walk on water and rise from the grave.

  all the evidence proves that none of this happened so why persist with faith?

  why be dishonest with yourself?

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  Coded Logic

  The point I was trying to make was that people put faith in God without having any reason for doing so.

  -LisaRose

  No, that's NOT the point you made. In fact, you made the COMPLETE OPPOSITE point. Please do not call other people "pathetic" when it is you who is failing to articulate your thoughts. You don't get to say one thing in your comments, and then when you get called on, turn around and claim you were saying the complete opposite. That sort of underhandedness is for GB, not for this forum.

  And no one is picking on you. Pointing out a valid logical flaw in your reasoning is NOT a personal attack. However, calling people "pathetic" is. Take a step back and consider your position - the only person acting like a bully here is you.
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  49

  Faith - Virtue or Vice?

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  faith gives you permission to believe that jesus actually did feed thousands with a few loaves & fishes, walk on water and rise from the grave.

  all the evidence proves that none of this happened so why persist with faith?

  why be dishonest with yourself?

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  Coded Logic

  You can have faith in a person, if that person has demonstrated that they are trustworthy.

  - LisaRose

  That's not faith. That's trust. While the word "faith" is a somewhat nebulous term and can have multiple meanings (sometimes synonymous with words like conviction, hope, etc.) it is being used in a VERY percise manner for this thread. We are talking about the sort of faith mentioned in Hebrews 11:1. Specifically, believing something without having evidence or contrary to the evidence simply because you want it to be true. Having "faith" in a person because they have demonstrated their trustworthiness in the past is no equvical.

  It would be like if this thread were asking if we should preserve the natural habbitat of wild cranes because they are going extinct and then someone saying that, "cranes are great because they help unload cargo off of ships." Clearly these are two entirely different things.
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  4

  Has anyone else seen this?

  by Pete Zahut in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this video was posted on a coworkers facebook page (non -jw).

  a former jw has started a cult in austrailia.

  this may have already been posted here but worth watching if you haven't seen it.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvw0efmnqtm.

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  Coded Logic

  It's scary how easily people can be programed. I find it extremely uncomfortable to watch.
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  71

  BORG running low on $$$??

  by fader77 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  dear brothers:.

  re: personal literature supply.

  reducing existing stock at the branch office before the revisions are released.

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  Coded Logic

  More likey the same old darkness
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  14

  Where does all the money go?

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  some recent posts on this site have really got me thinking.

  the kingdom halls are all paid for by their congregations - as are the assemblies and the conventions (none of it comes out of the wtbts pocket).

  every single assembly and convention i have ever been to there is always a surplus of money that is sent back to the society.

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  Coded Logic

  Some recent posts on this site have really got me thinking. The Kingdom Halls are all paid for by their congregations - as are the assemblies and the conventions (none of it comes out of the WTBTS pocket). Every single assembly and convention I have ever been to there is always a surplus of money that is sent back to the Society. And the Society has recently pilfered the savings from local KHs.

  The WTBTS has also sold off 10s of millions of dollars of its properties (over a 100 million by some estimates). And they are spending a fraction on printing and distribution of literature compared to 10 or even 5 years ago. The have also closed dozens of branches, greatly decreased their salaried work force, and even gotten rid of District Overseers.

  All of this makes me realize the Society has very little in overhead costs. All their properties have been paid off for decades. What are they doing with all the money in donations, savings, and property sales that they are accumulating?

  This makes me think one of two possibilities is likely.

  1. They are planning on making a huge purchase in the next year or two. Though what that purchase could be I have no idea.

  2. They really thought the end was going to happen last decade and have made bad financial decisions (coupled with the recession) and are now desperately trying to dig themselves out of a hole.

  Maybe just my optimism is getting the better of me, but is it just possible the WTBTS is in worse shape than any of us realize? Five years ago I don’t think any of us thought the WTBTS foot print would shrink as much as it has ove the past couple of years. Maybe the Society is closer to bankruptcy than any of us realize. If they were, it would be just like them to keep on acting like everything is just fine.

  Anyone have any thoughts on this?

  P.S. I know the WTBTS makes it seem like they finance building KHs in third world countries but, everything I've researched thus far, shows even those JWs have to cover their own KH construction costs. And their choice of construction materials often reflect this.